Michelle Obama says she’s navigating a new phase in life—one filled with self-reflection, a desire for independence, and therapy—as speculation surrounding her marriage to former President Barack Obama continues to grow.

The former First Lady, now 61, shared candid reflections during recent podcast appearances, discussing her adjustment to post-White House life, her evolving personal identity, and the emotional work underway within her decades-long marriage. “I want to try to do normal things... I want to feel like I'm by myself,” Michelle said during a conversation on Amy Poehler’s Good Hang. “I’m driving a little bit more by myself... in the car by myself.”

Michelle spoke about the intense pressure she faced during Barack Obama’s presidency from 2009 to 2017. “As first lady... the eight years, even beyond, the stakes were so high. And Barack and I, our team, we felt like we didn't have room to get anything wrong,” she said. “And in (this podcast), I can be loose. I can stutter. I can misspeak sometimes… I just feel like there's room to breathe.”

Earlier this month, she revealed on Jay Shetty’s On Purpose podcast that she returned to therapy. “I’m 61 years old, I finished a really hard thing in life with my family intact,” she said. “At this phase of my life, I'm in therapy right now because I’m transitioning, you know?”

Now that daughters Sasha, 23, and Malia, 26, have moved out, Michelle described feeling a new sense of freedom. “I now don’t have the excuse of, 'Well my kids need this,' or 'my husband needs that' or 'the country needs that.' So how do I think about this next phase, and let me get some help.”

Sources close to the couple say both Michelle and Barack are in therapy and working on their relationship. “They love each other deeply, but marriage is work,” one insider told Hollywood columnist Rob Shuter. “They’re committed to doing that work – even now.”

The same source noted the longtime dynamic between the couple. “Barack’s always been comfortable with distance, and Michelle’s always been about presence. That dynamic hasn’t changed, even all these years later.”

Despite these efforts, the couple is reportedly preparing for all outcomes, including a possible divorce. They are said to be working through how to divide their estimated $70 million in assets.

In another recent interview—this time on IMO with Michelle Obama & Craig Robinson, co-hosted with her older brother—Michelle opened up about parenting her daughters and what topics were off-limits in their household. “We got to the point at our dinner table where we just didn't talk about school at all,” she told guest Tina Knowles. “It would be like, 'OK, you passed.' I didn't want to hear about grades.”

She added that her reluctance stemmed from wanting to avoid comparisons between Malia and Sasha. “I didn't want to get into that because I didn't know what kind of student Sasha would be,” she said. “So to this day, Malia still feels like I don't give her enough credit, but she's good.”

Michelle also recalled intervening in moments of sibling tension. She had to pull her aside and be like, "Don't step on my child. No one stepped on you,” she said, noting how she and Barack supported their daughters’ development without judgment.

Tina Knowles, who appeared on the show to promote her book Matriarch, praised both Obama daughters. “They are both so brilliant. I had lunch with them, and I was just like, 'Woah.' I mean so confident and smart and talented.”

The podcast’s YouTube episode received strong support from listeners who praised the honesty and relatability of the conversation. One user, @MindYourOwn777, wrote: “I'm absolutely enjoying her interviews with different guests. They're all fascinating, relatable and so real.”